Thimbron

In this article I attempt to condense some interesting information about Chinese I’ve learned in my recent discussions with gregorynyssa, a scholar of Chinese, Greek, and Latin, much after my own heart but far more advanced in all of these studies than myself.

Sentence Structure

According to gregorynyssa speakers of Mandarin Chinese, a language significantly lacking in grammar (such as explicit case), use these tricks with sentences to express more complicated ideas.

Since Chinese does not handle embedded clauses very elegantly, often speakers have a tendency just to avoid them.

Here are three techniques used by Mandarin speakers to express more complicated ideas.

Comma Splicing

Join two complete sentences with a comma. A result of this is there is no consistent distinction between commas and periods in Chinese writing.

我使用那把从抽屉拿出来的刀，切开了水果。

Subject-periodic Construction

This involves combining sentences which share a subject.

我很喜欢去看电影，觉得很有趣

Pivotal Construction

If the object of the first sentence is the same as the subject of the second, omit the latter and join the two sentences with a comma.

我昨天看了一部电影，非常精彩。

Digraphic Verbs, Improper Digraphic Verbs, and Monographic Verbs

Monographic verbs can’t serve as nouns.
Improper digraphic verbs can’t serve as nouns.
Most but not all digraphic verbs can serve as nouns.

The upshot of this is that it is necessary to learn the the noun forms for all improper digraphic verbs. For example, 睡觉 may not serve as a noun. In that case 睡眠 must be used. This partially explains why there are so many two-character words in chinese where both characters, according to the dictionary, mean exactly the same thing.

Improper digraphic verbs generally have a second syllable indicating direction or result.

Minor Grammatical Points

来 before a verb indicates the infinitive.
得 is more idiomatic when used vefore adverbs.
来到 is an improper verb meaning “come to.”
迅速 is used more often as an adverb in declarative sentences than 快, which is most often used in an imperative sense.
去 may only be used before place names, non-monographic verbs, and before terms indicating general vicinity¹.

Further Reading

According to gregorynyssa, reading Disyllabic Words in Chinese and
Metrical Phonology have helped him fundamentally understand the nature 普通话(Putonghua). I haven’t yet read these papers and as of yet have no comment on them.

For a better understanding of how 普通话(apparently of relatively recent origin) differs from Ancient Chinese, read Peasant and Merchant as well as Rule of Law.

1. Thus it is necessary to append 那边 to nouns like 超市 when expressing “going to <non-place name> [↩]

Pour one out for this chicken that was ritually sacrificed on behalf of my health sometime in the last few days by my Chinese ex-girlfriend’s¹ priest/shaman somewhere in the godforsaken East.

I can already feel the chicken’s essence giving me power as its soul seeps slowly into my qi. I don’t know if this chicken will be enough for me to do the work to begin importing encyclopedia entries into mp-wp. It may take a few more chicken lives.

1. I’ve left her on read for months but she persists [↩]

A question occurred to me the other day that I wouldn’t have asked had I not studied Greek: How is the dative expressed in Chinese?

It was not easy for me to find the answer. I mean, try asking the average Chinese grad student or massage girl¹: “Hey, you know the dative? How do I do that in Chinese?” No, I’m not learning Chinese from DuckDuckGo, but yes, I searched for “Chinese dative” and found only a graduate research paper from Taiwan in the form of a pdf. Luckily, while at home where I have a book called “Mandarin Chinese - a functional reference grammar”² I remembered I was trying to figure this out and looked up “Dative” in the index. There was one entry, and it said “See Indirect Object.” It dawned on me³ that that is what I should have been searching for all along, because even more so than English, and unlike Ancient Greek, which is synthetic, Chinese is an analytic language.

Anyway, the reason I wanted to know how to properly express the dative in Chinese is because I have been finding it awkward⁴ to express sentences where I use something to do something, or I do something for someone or something. Here is what I found.

It is messy. Just as in English, there’s no unified concept⁵. Different prepositions apply in different contexts. Wei is sort of like “for” and must be used when you are doing something “for” somebody, but it can’t be used if you are doing something “to” somebody. For that there is “bei”, but “bei” can only be used when what is being done to somebody is detrimental in some way.⁶ To express something in the passive voice that is not detrimental to the subject, well, just omit the agent and use a verb that doesn’t require one! Like if you want to say in Chinese that your book was published, just say “my book publish.”

When expressing indirect objects, there are three classes of verbs to consider. One class requires what is called a “coverb”⁷ in the form of the verb “gei (give) to be prepended. For another class “gei” is optional, and for yet another class “gei” is forbidden. How am I to remember which verbs belong in which class? I don’t know, but hopefully it will help to document them here.

Gei Required

Gei Optional

Gei Forbidden⁸

1. Hey they both have student visas! [↩]
2. This is a very nice book, especially for those who eschew hieroglyphs [↩]
3. I wasn’t taught about the dative in my education in English, only things like direct and indirect objects. I wasn’t taught about the concept of case at all. Why I was not taught about case isn’t clear to me because it’s not like even though most nouns in English don’t change based on case case isn’t a thing. [↩]
4. And it’s weird because often times I might read about a way to express something in a language, but something inside my brain won’t trust this information unless I actually hear a real person say something in a real context that confirms or demonstrates it - even then subconsciously there is a verification process akin to asking “Is this person just dumbing things down for me?” [↩]
5. Interestingly the literal translation of the Chinese word for dative in Chinese - “yu ge” - is “give case.” For those who know Latin I suppose that’s not all that interesting. [↩]
6. However this appears to be changing. From my grammar text: “a markedly increased use of the passive has perhaps been one of the striking syntactic trends in the development of Modern Chinese…. There has been a great deal of translation from foreign languages into Chinese during the past half century, including a perfect flood of Marxist material, which the Soviets translated and sold far below cost and which had a profound and continuing impact upon Chinese intelligentsia. The great majority of the translators were hacks, equipped with neither any real linguistic sophistication nor even a very secure grasp of the languages involved and their stylistic niceties. They had learned another language in the most straightforward and mindless fashion: Here is a Russion verb ispoljzovan [which means ‘is used, utilized’]. What’s the chinese for that? Bei li-yong [where liyong means ‘to take advangage of someone or something for one’s own benefit’] and ever thereafter, when the Russion ispoljzovan crops up, it is doggedly translated bei li-yong, with never a thought that there might be some possibility of recasting the sentence to put it into idomatic Chinese, avoiding the passive. Such patterns become enshrined in ritually-admired literature and thence they are imitated in other literature and are read aloud; and in no time people are speaking that way, with no idea that they are participating in radical linguistic change.” [↩]
7. A coverb is a word that may serve as a verb, but must occur in at least some contexts where it can’t be interpreted as a verb [↩]
8. For these verbs, the indirect object must precede the direct object. So a literal example in English for the verb ask (wen) would be “I ask him some questions” [↩]

I found this post to be interesting. It's just not the sort of thing you usually see coming out of China in any medium. Judging by the quality of this translation which is rather low in my opinion, she struggled with it. Here is a note from her:

this paper is really longer and harder to translate than before. Comparing to previous work, the acadmic paper or news takes less time to translate as it have strong logic. But the logic of this post is disordered to some extent, and it takes me nearly 4 hours to translate.

Translation

When I decided to ask passers-by for exchanging Bitcoin to RMB during the National Day holiday, I suddenly remembered a news a few years ago. It was a foreign family, exchanging all of their money and property to Bitcoin, and then preaching Bitcoin globally.

I did not understand why they did that at that time, and I had no interesting in Bitcoin. Abnormal behavior often contains a truth that one does not know, which is what I learned later from reading The Structure of the Scientific Revolution. I hope I could influence others to get to know Bitcoin through my effort, even only just one person.

However, I underestimated the ability of the police. Just after talking with a few people, I was arrested on the first day. Not because I preached bitcoin, but disturbed the order of the scenic spot.

Yesterday I went to Hedacheng (a shopping mall in Hangzhou). A Menswear shop owner was very interesting for my topic. I asked her if she supported Bitcoin
She said that she had heard of Bitcoin, but she did not support it!
I told her "If you support, I will buy more clothes." She still said no.
I asked her for the reason and told her it is very simple. Just need to download a wallet and I would send her Bitcoin. She shook her head and let me go.

Sometimes I really want to know the reason that why they I refuse me?

I pretended to go to Fred Square to have lunch in order to follow two students of National People's Congress all the way. I pretended that I had not eaten a meal for a long time, because no one wanted to exchange RMB with me.
They wanted to get rid of me a bit. But their way back to the school was the same as going to Fred Square with me. I took the opportunity continue to say a lot about Bitcoin.
"You can try to get to know Bitcoin, in case this thing is useful to you. 20 RMB can't be a huge loss. I also graduated from your university, major in computer “. One of them seemed to have been moved by me but just for sympathy, not because they want to know Bitcoin. For the reason that I said that I am very hungry and I had not eaten for a long time.

"Our company is recruiting now. Even if one of the interviewers said he had Bitcoin, we would hire him, because he at least took the initiative to get to know and buy Bitcoin, not afraid of new things. I think such people are brave. You could also consider block chain as your future internship direction. There are very few talents in this area. The block chain comes from Bitcoin.”

Then, one of them would like to buy a bowl of noodles for me, and the other one would like to know, but did not want to exchange Bitcoin. I asked him whom bought me the noodle to download the wallet. I sent him 20 Bitcoin and told him to remember the password.

I was thinking about how to introduce Bitcoin in five minutes or so, and what the difference between Bitcoin and Alipay or WeChat payment. I told them there was an upper limit of Bitcoin but no upper limit for RMB issuance. However, they did not get any interest about that.

I told them to learn and understand the principles and knowledge of Bitcoin and block chain and recommended them some books about that, warning them not to speculate in the Bitcoin market. However, they wanted to end the conversation with a stranger like me and left without waiting me to eat the noodle.

I didn't know what they would talk about when they went back. Were they surprised, curious, awkward, or really thought this is an opportunity. On the way back, I thought for a long time, why they would refuse me?

People live in the familiar environment all the time. Most of them have not thought about whether some habits or cognition is reasonable and whether people could have better choices and living environment. I believe people are worth to improve themselves in lots of aspects, but they do not realize it. The fundamental is that people do not try to think about the abnormal things that are different from the routine, just live in the familiar environment.

I wanted to go back but reluctant. I was really tired and sat by the side of the subway with paper. I hope that passers-by can look at me and ask what Bitcoin is. But no one stopped.

I walked over to a couple who were taking pictures and told them that I could give you double bitcoin if you would like to exchange money with me. He shook his head and let me go. Then, I met a college student who was researching block chain. But he didn't want to exchange and regarded me as a liar. But I really thought he was a liar.

There were four passengers played by the roadside. I asked them weather they would like to exchange Bitcoin. They said four times that they were not interested, with mockery.

Was I discouraged? Not, it was all expected.

People gave me some comments on the Weibo. Some comment that they want to exchange with me and some want to cheer me up. Some people think my behavior could only make passersby hate bitcoin more and I could not get any benefit.

I decided to go back. When I was waiting for the subway, I asked the stuff about the time of the last subway. The stuff told me 11 o'clock. I took the opportunity to talk with him about Bitcoin and the purpose why I come here. He was still not interested about Bitcoin.

Walking out of the subway, I took a photo and told myself to continue tomorrow. I know that the result of tomorrow is still the same, but I still have to do something.

Although I know that there is no effect, I still have to do it.

Source

Let it not be said that 2019 was a year of failures.  This evening I managed to establish direct contact via e-mail with a certain Ms. Du, who is a Chinese translator located in Mainland China.  She has agreed to translate one short news article for me on a weekly basis indefinitely.  Of course no one is interested in reading the typical fluff broadly available, but I hope to learn from and maintain the relationship so that in the future when more substantial content has been located, she will be available to aid in translating it.

I am using the approach suggested in the log¹ on at least one occasion.  I believe the best way to learn a language is to live in a country that speaks that language.  I can't live in China right now for many stupid reasons.  However, I do live in a Chinese colony which you may know of as California, although the people who actually own their houses here call it 加州.

In my particular region there are many Chinese run massage parlors.  Many of the women there speak English poorly, in fact poorly enough that they prefer to converse with me in Chinese, poorly though I speak it.  So I pay a small fee, get an hour long conversation session + a great massage.  I supplement this with an app called Du Chinese, that has graded readings and a built in flash-card system that can generate cards from characters in the readings.  I have made a good deal of progress over the past year, such that I can get by days at a time using only Chinese with my 情人(lover).

1. Although on re-reading, which I should do more of, I am perhaps doing it wrong [↩]